Sequencing with the JP-8080 |
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Section | Introduction | ||||
Chapter | |||||
Article | |||||
1 | Section 1 · The two MIDI IN ports |
![]() This compendium adresses sequencing with the JP-8080 and the special set of problems that arise if you:
These topics have been the source of many discussions around the Web, as in the following examples:
Methods to solve the problems are presented in Section 3 · Recording Methods. |
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1. | 1 | Using the JP's MIDI In Port | |||
1. | 2 | Using the JP's Remote KBD In Port | |||
1. | 2. | 1 | Arpeggiator & RPS | ||
1. | 2. | 2 | Local Switch | ||
1. | 2. | 3 | MIDI Sync | ||
1. | 2. | 4 | Output from Remote KBD In | ||
1. | 2. | 5 | Syncing JP-8080's Arpeggiator to MIDI Clock | ||
2 | Section 2 · Recording Setup | ||||
3 | Section 3 · Recording Methods | ||||
3. | 1 | Using the JP's MIDI-In Port | |||
3. | 1. | 1 | Notes + SysEx Composite | ||
3. | 1. | 2 | Notes & SysEx Separated | ||
3. | 2 | Using the JP's Remote KBD In Port | |||
3. | 2. | 1 | «The Dreaded MIDI-loop» | ||
3. | 2. | 2 | Keyboard on Track 1 - JP on Track 2 | ||
3. | 2. | 3 | Keyboard on Track 1 - SysEx on Track 2 | ||
4 | Section 4 · Recording Quick Reference | ||||
Section 1 · The two MIDI IN ports |
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The JP–8080 has got two MIDI input ports: REMOTE KBD IN and MIDI IN. They are treated briefely at page 168 in the Owners Manual (OM). These inputs work differently. Therefore, an understanding of how the JP is designed is reqired, in order to set it up correctely. On Page 54 and 145 in the OM there are a diagrams showing setups for sequencer-recording. Those setups require a MIDI-keyboard to be connected directely to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN. Most people, on the other hand, prefer to connect the MIDI-keyboard directely to the computer - either via MIDI or via USB - whitch is the type of setup that will shall be focused on. An important issue - espescially with a kind of synthesizer like the JP - is of course the ability to record all controller-movements generated from the knobs and sliders on the front-panel. This requires connecting the output-port of the synthesizer to a MIDI-input of the sequencing-system. This issue is a source to difficulties with the JP-8080, whitch - as mentioned - has been discussed around the web. |
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Fig 1.1 - JP-8080 MIDI FlowChart.
The flowchart shows the MIDI signal paths within the JP–8080. It will make
it easier to understand the differences between the two MIDI inputs, and thus also
easier to determine whitch one to use.
The flowchart will further make it easy to see why you must use REMOTE KEYBOARD
IN in order to use the Arpeggiator – and why the LOCAL switch must be turned
ON to make the Controllers operational. between the two MIDI inputs, and thus also
easier to determine whitch one to use.
The flowchart presented here may give a better understanding than the one presented
on page 54 in the Owners Manual. That is because the chart in the OM may give the
impression that signals inserted in the REMOTE KBD IN will pass through to the MIDI
OUT even if the Local switch is set to OFF – whitch is not the case: Only
the signals that affects the JP's Sound Source will be output to the MIDI OUT –
that is "what the JP actually plays".
Since there is no "through" switch for the MIDI signals output from the JP's Sound
Source, it is also impossible to avoid that signals inserted in the REMOTE KBD IN
(that actually plays the JP) will be echoed to the MIDI OUT.
Rule when using REMOTE KBD IN: If the JP plays, everything
it plays will be echoed. When the JP dont't play, NOTHING will be echoed.
Recording when using REMOTE KBD IN: If you have the
JP's output connected to your sequencer, you will get a MIDI loop if you record
from "All MIDI Inputs". You must instead select the input–port representing
your keyboard only, so you not get the return–signals from the JP's output
in addition.
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1.1 · Using the JP's MIDI In Port |
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Normally you will conect a cable from a MIDI out-port on a port on your MIDI-interface to the MIDI IN on a synthesizer – and another cable from the MIDI out on the synthersizer and back to the MIDI in-port of the same port on the interface. Then you will set the "MIDI Trhru" switch on the synthesizer to "off", to avoid creating a MIDI-loop. You can setup your JP exectely like this, using the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports only. As mentioned, you must set the MIDI Thru switch to OFF This is the simplest way to set up the JP – a kind of "normal" setup. However, with this setup you will not be able to use the JP's Arpeggiator–, RPS– and Motion Control–functions – because they are exclusively available from the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port:
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The JP-8080 has two ports for MIDI input (IN/REMOTE KBD IN). In order to control
the arpeggiator (p.36, 90) and RPS (p.38, 92), be sure to connect your MIDI keyboard
to the REMOTE KBD IN port. The arpeggiator and RPS cannot be controlled from the
MIDI IN port.
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Owners Manual : p
19
These things cannot be controlled from the MIDI IN port.
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Owners Manual : p
54; 124
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Fig 1.1.0 - JP-8080 MIDI In Port
![]() Settings for this setup
With this setup, it does not matter whether the Local switch is on
or off. The controllers on the front-panel will not affect the sound anyway.
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1.2 · Using the JP's Remote KBD In Port |
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1.2.1 · Arpeggiator & RPS |
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Fig 1.2.0 - JP-8080 Remote KBD In Port.
![]() Settings for this setup
With this setup, it does not matter whether the MIDI Thru switch is on
or off. It only affects signals from the MIDI IN port.
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If you want to use JP's Arpeggiator, you must use the REMOTE KBD IN port. It is not possible to control the Arpeggiator from MIDI IN. (OM p 90, 144–146):
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Operations performed on an external MIDI device connected to REMOTE KBD IN will
be handled exactly in the same way as when JP-8080 controllers are operated (including
test playing in preview mode).
This means that when an external MIDI device is connected to REMOTE KBD IN, the
following things are possible.
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Owners Manual : p
54; 124
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1.2.2 · Local Switch |
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In order for REMOTE KBD IN – as well as the controllers – to be operational, you must set the MIDI Local switch to ON. This switch will automatically be set to ON every time the JP is powered up. (OM p 122).
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Local Switch
This switch determines whether or not the JP-8080's controllers (knobs, sliders,
buttons), will be connected to its sound generator (p.54), and whether the controller
(keyboard, sliders etc.) connected to the REMOTE KBD IN will be connected to the
sound source.
OFF: The JP-8080's controllers will not control its built-in sound source.
Nor will it be possible for MIDI messages from the REMOTE KBD IN port to control
the sound source.
Only MIDI messages from the MIDI IN port will control the sound source.
ON: The JP-8080's controllers will control its built-in sound source. MIDI
messages from both REMOTE KBD IN and MIDI IN will also control the sound source.
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Owners Manual : p
122
So: If the Local switch is set to OFF, only signals received at the MIDI IN will influence the JP–8080 - the REMOTE KBD IN port will not be operational, nor will the controllers send any output to the MIDI OUT port. |
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1.2.3 · MIDI Sync |
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When using the JP's arpeggiator and other clock-operated functions in combination with a sequencer, you will need to sync the JP's arpeggiator – and everything else – to the sequencer. All kinds of syncing can only be done via the REMOTE KBD IN. Since the arpeggiator only works from the REMOTE KBD IN port, MIDI Sync must naturally also be set to REMOTE KBD IN if you want the arpeggiator to sync to the outside world.
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Synchronizing Arpeggios, Patterns, or Motions
The arpeggio, pattern, or motion will playback at the same tempo as the playback
of the external MIDI device. If you modify the tempo of the external MIDI device,
the tempo of the arpeggio, pattern, or motion will also change.
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Owners Manual : p
144
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1.2.4 · Output from Remote KBD In |
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Input to REMOTE KBD IN - on the MIDI-channel(s) it is set to operate on - is echoed to MIDI OUT. Input on other channels makes no types of output, and will not pass though – even if the THRU switch is set to ON, since this swithch only affects incomming signals from MIDI IN. When using the Arpeggiator, it will output the arpeggiated noetes it actually "plays" - not the notes that was input to the REMOTE KBD IN port. Movements of the front panel controllers, will be output on ALL channels – not only on the active one. Because of the described variables, a problem arises in sequencig-situations. The situation is as follows:
That is: When you play your keyboard - or move the JP's Controllers you wish to record - the signals are sent into your sequencer and passed through to the JP. The same signals are then sent out of the JP and into your sequencer, back to the JP - and so on... So: It is impossible to play a MIDI-keyboard via the REMOTE KBD IN port and make the JP do anything (Local switch ON)- with or without the Arpeggiator - and defeat the signal from being echoed to the MIDI OUT port. (Remember that the Thru switch does not affect the REMOTE KBD IN port. Methods to deal with this situation will be discussed in Section 3 - JP-8080 Recording Methods. |
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1.2.5 · Syncing JP-8080's Arpeggiator to MIDI Clock |
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If you not record the return from the MIDI OUT port, you can connect yot sequencer to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port, sync the JP to your sequencer, and record your MIDI-keyboard-signals, and play them back (operating the Arpeggiator) without further considerations. |
Section 2 · Recording Setup |
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On page 54 and 145 in the Owners Manual there are diagrams showing setups Roland suggest for sequencer-recording. Those setups require a MIDI-keyboard to be connected directely to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN. Instead of using Roland's setup, we will use another, which is a combination of the two setups described under 1.1 - Using MIDI IN and 1.2 - Using REMOTE KBD IN. The setup presented in Fig 2.1. uses two ports on a MIDI-interface, assuming the MIDI-keyboard uses none but is connected via USB, as shown in the image The examples in the next chapter - "JP-8080 Recording Methods" - are based on the setup presented here. |
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Fig 2.1 - Setup for sequencer-recording recording, using two MIDI-ports. The ports
of the JP are represented by the following colors:
MIDI OUT · MIDI
IN · REMOTE KBD IN
![]() Settings for this setup
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Section 3 · Recording Methods |
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3.1 · Using the JP's MIDI-In Port3.1.1 · Notes + SysEx Composite |
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The first method lets you record notes from a MIDI-keyboard plus controller-movements from the JP's front-panel simultaneously, to one single track. Since it adresses the JP's MIDI IN port, you will not be able to use the Arpeggiator- or RPS-functions (OM p 19). Fig 3.1.1 shows a track recorded in Cubase. The notes from the keyboard are shown as horisontal lines and the SysEx from the JP as vertical lines. All recorded simultaneously. |
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Fig 3.1.1 : Notes + SysEx merged to the same track.
Signal Flow · When Input Routing is set to ALL MIDI INPUTS, your sequencer will record from all MIDI-ports and will thus record the output from both your MID-keyboard and the JP. Since both signal-streams will be routed to Out A, they will both be directed to the MIDI IN port of the JP - and it will playback what was sent from the keyboard (received via USB) as well as the SysEx from the JP's controllers (received via Midisport In A). It is crucial to set the MIDI Thru switch to OFF to avoid creating a MIDI-loop - and to set the Local switch to ON so the controllers are operational (OM p 122). |
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3.1.2 · Notes & SysEx Separated |
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This method resembles the previous, in that it lets you record notes from a MIDI-keyboard and controller-movements from the JP simultaneously. Since it also adresses the JP's MIDI IN port, you will not be able to use the Arpeggiator or RPS-functions (OM p 19). Instead of merging the signal-streams from the keyboard and the JP's controllers to one recording, this method separates them into two independent tracks: One for the keyboard - and one for the SysEx from the controllers. Fig 3.1.2 shows the notes from the keyboard as horisontal lines in track 1 and the SysEx as vertical lines in track 2. It is of course also possible to first record the notes on one track, then record the SysEx on another track, and afterwords playback both tracks simultaneously. The advantage of this method, is that it makes it easy to edit/re-record either the notes or the SysEx separately. |
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Fig 3.1.2 : Notes & SysEx routed to separate tracks.
Signal Flow · Track 1 receives the signal-stream from the keyboard only. Track 2 receives the SysEx from the JP's MIDI OUT port. Both tracks adress the JP's MIDI IN port, because they both are routed to Out A on the MIDI-interface. When you operate the keyboard and the JP's front-panel, both signal streams are sent to the JP's MIDI IN. When you record, those signal streams will record on different tracks. What you played will be reproduced when you playback both tracks simultaneously. |
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3.2 · Using the JP's Remote KBD In Port3.2.1 · «The Dreaded MIDI-loop» |
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This is the configuration you can't use with the JP-8080. You cannot treat the REMOTE KBD IN port the same way as the MIDI IN port. When adressing the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port, there is no way to defeat the signal from being echoed to the MIDI OUT port (the MIDI Thru switch affects the signal-stream from the MIDI IN port only) - other than seting the Local switch to OFF, whitch then makes the REMOTE KBD IN inoperational. So: In order to use the REMOTE KBD IN port, the Local switch must be set to ON. This means that when the JP plays or are otherwise operated - everything it does is output via the MIDI OUT port. Since the sequencer's Input Routing is set to ALL MIDI INPUTS, both the signals from the keyboard and those coming out of the JP itself - will go into the sequencer that will pass them to the JP. The JP will echo them to the MIDI OUT port and pass them back to the sequencer, which pass them to the JP once again... |
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Fig 3.2.1 : "The Dreaded MIDI-loop" setup - which must be avoided!
Signal Flow · This is "The Dreaded MIDI-loop". The signals will circle from the output to the input and back eternally. |
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3.2.2 · Keyboard on Track 1 - JP on Track 2 |
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This method resembles method 3.1.2 in that it use one track for recording the signal-stream from the keyboard and another for the the signal-stream coming out of the JP. In contrast to method 3.1.2, this method will not record the output from the JP as SysEx only - it will also record the notes. This may be a disadvantage compared to method 3.1.2 in some situations. However, this method lets you use and record the Arpeggiator- and RPS-functions, because it adresses the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port (OM p 54; 124). The figures shows three tracks. You actually only need two. The reason for using three is this: Track two cannot have the same Output Routing setting on recording time as it needs for playback - then you would create the "The Dreaded MIDI-loop", as described in Section 3.2.1. But on playback-time, we need the Output Routing that is set for Track 3. So, instead of switching the Output Routing between recording- and playback-states all the time, it may be easier to use a preconfigured 3rd track, and just drag the recording from Track 2 down to Track 3 for listening. On the other hand, you may regard Track 3 as the "playback-state" of Track 2. |
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Fig 3.2.21 : Keyboard records on Track 1 - and the output from the JP (notes + SysEx
merged) on Track 2. When using the arpeggiator, the notes will be output as what
the arpeggiator actually plays - instead of what you play on the keyboard.
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Fig 3.2.22 : Drag the recording from Track 2 down to Track 3 to playback to the
JP's MIDI IN input. Mute Track 1 to stop it from "playing along".
RecordingDescription · In the example in the figures, the arpeggiator was used. Track 1 consists of long chords input by the keyboard, displayed as long horisontal lines. Whenever the JP plays, triggered from the REMOTE KBD IN port, it will inevitabely output everything to the MIDI OUT port. The output was recorded on Track 2. But as displayed in Track 2 in Fig 3.2.21: The JP didn't output the notes played on the keyboard - but what the JP played. That is, the actual arpeggiated notes produced by the Arpeggiator. The controllers on the JP's front-panel was also used during the recording, and the activity is represented by the vertical lines in the track. Track 1 and 2 are recorded simultaneously.The Input Routing of Track 1 is set to receive from the keyboard only. Input Routing of Track 2 is set to receive from the JP's MIDI OUT port. For this reason, its Output Routing is set to Not Connected, in order to avoid "The Dreaded MIDI-loop" (described in Section 3.2.1). Signal Flow (Fig 3.2.21) · The notes played on the MIDI-keyboard are recorded on Track 1 and passed to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port. What the JP plays - along with manupulations of the front-panel's controllers - are sent passed via the JP's MIDI OUT port to the sequencer and recorded on Track 2. PlaybackDescription · When recording is done on Track 2 (Fig 3.2.21), the material is dragged down to Track 3 (Fig 3.2.22). Here the Output Routing is ready configured - and there will be no MIDI-loop, because you not are going to hit the record-button on this track. You may also set Input Routing on Track 3 to Not Connected to be extra-secured. The reason why this is not done in the example, is to emphasize Track 2's role as the "playback-state" of Track 2. When you playback Track 3, it will not adress the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port as the keyboard did on recording time. It will instead adress the JP's MIDI IN port. However, since the recording on (now) Track 3 is represented by the actual arpeggiated notes - the apeggiated piece will playback exactly like it did when using the Arpeggiator on recording-time, and the controller-movements will of course also be reproduced correctly. With this method: If you are satisfied with what you played on the keyboard on Track 1, but want to re-record the controller-movements, you can delete the recording on Track 2 and playback Track 1 while recording the controller-movements on Track 2 over again. Important: On playback time Track 1 must be muted - if not it will "play along" - in this case, playing the arpeggiator once again. Signal Flow (Fig 3.2.22) · What was recorded on Track 2 is passed to the JP's MIDI IN port for playback. Track 1 is muted, so it doesn't "play along". It is crucial to set the MIDI Thru switch to OFF to avoid creating a MIDI-loop - and to set the Local switch to ON so the controllers are operational (OM p 122). |
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3.2.3 · Keyboard on Track 1 - SysEx on Track 2 |
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This method will give you the notes (and wheels, etc) from the keyboard on Track 1 and only the signal-stream from the controllers on the JP's front-panel on Track 2 - while playing back via the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port. However, the two tracks cannot be recorded simultaneously. Method 3.2.3 resembles method 3.2.2 in that it records the signal-stream from the keyboard to one track and the signal-stream coming out of the JP to another. However, the same rule is true here as for method 3.2.2: Whenever the JP plays, triggered from the REMOTE KBD IN port, it will inevitabely output everything to the MIDI OUT port. So when the keybord-track was recorded to Track 2 using the Arpeggiator, the arpeggiated notes were sent out of the MIDI OUT port along with the SysEx from the controllers - the same way it did under method 3.2.2. So why is it, that the arpeggiated notes are missing from the recording in Track 2, as shown in Fig 3.2.32 and only the SysEx is displayed (as vertical lines)? The reason why the notes are missing from Track 2 is MIDI Filtering - which will be explained further - that filters out the keyboard-informationcoming in through the sequencer's MIDI-interface. And this is the reason why you cannot record the two tracks simultaneously: Because when you filter out all the keyboard-information from the signal-stream coming from the JP's MIDI OUT port - you also filter out the keyboard-information you want to send to its MIDI IN port from your keyboard. When you turn on the note-filter, no note-information coming in through the sequencer's MIDI-interface will cause anything to play - even when the MIDI activity-indicators in Cubase lights up. When you playback the pre-recorded track, on the other hand, it will make the JP play. |
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Fig 3.2.31 : Keyboard are recorded to Track 1.
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Fig 3.2.32 : The recorded material plays back from Track 1 - and the output from
the JP (notes + SysEx merged) is recorded on Track 2. When using the sequencers
MIDI-filter, it is possible to filter out the notes (pitch-bend, etc) and only record
the SysEx from the controllers on the JP's front-panel. The MIDI-filter in Cubase
is shown in Fig 3.2.34.
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Fig 3.2.33 : Plyback Track one with the original keyboard-input. Drag the recording
from Track 2 down to Track 3 and play it back to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN input. Now
the notes plays from Track 1, and the SysEx from Track 2.
RecordingDescription · Track 1 was recorded using the Arpeggiator, triggered via the JP's REMOTE KBD IN while playing. The recording on Track 1 shows the chords played on the keyboard that were used to trigger the Arpeggiator (Fig 3.2.31). After recording Track 1, it was played back to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN port, while recording the output from the JP's MIDI OUT to Track 2. But before Track 2 was recorded, the MIDI-filter in Cubase was set to filter out all MIDI-messages originating from the keyboard - which in the current situation also means the arpeggiated notes originating from the JP's Arpeggiator. That is why Track 2 contains no note-messages. And here one will ask: "Could we not do that simultaneously with recording Track 1"? That is, so both tracks could have been recorded simultaneously? The answer is depressing - but that is in fact not possible. PlaybackDescription · To listen to the combined recording - that is, the chords on Track 1 triggering the Apeggiator on the JP, while the SysEx on Track 2 tweaks the filters and so on - drag the recording from Track 2 down to Track 3. The philosophy behind the "dragging" is the same here, as in method 3.2.2. |
Section 4 · Recording Quick Reference |
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Using the JP's MIDI-In Port |
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Fig 3.1.1 : Notes + SysEx merged to the same track.
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Fig 3.1.2 : Notes & SysEx routed to separate tracks.
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Using the JP's Remote KBD In Port |
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Fig 3.2.1 : "The Dreaded MIDI-loop" setup - which must be avoided!
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Fig 3.2.21 : Keyboard records on Track 1 - and the output from the JP (notes + SysEx
merged) on Track 2. When using the arpeggiator, the notes will be output as what
the arpeggiator actually plays - instead of what you play on the keyboard.
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Fig 3.2.22 : Drag the recording from Track 2 down to Track 3 to playback to the
JP's MIDI IN input. Mute Track 1 to stop it from "playing along".
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Fig 3.2.31 : Keyboard are recorded to Track 1.
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Fig 3.2.32 : The recorded material plays back from Track 1 - and the output from
the JP (notes + SysEx merged) is recorded on Track 2. When using the sequencers
MIDI-filter, it is possible to filter out the notes (pitch-bend, etc) and only record
the SysEx from the controllers on the JP's front-panel. The MIDI-filter in Cubase
is shown in Fig 3.2.34.
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Fig 3.2.33 : Plyback Track one with the original keyboard-input. Drag the recording
from Track 2 down to Track 3 and play it back to the JP's REMOTE KBD IN input. Now
the notes plays from Track 1, and the SysEx from Track 2.
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